What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

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What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:36 pm

...I was born opposite Wanstead Flats in the old Aldersbrook Hospital in 1949 and I lived in Second Avenue until I left home at 18 in 1967.
I went to Salisbury School and Sandringham Secondary....I live in the Midlands now but have been back to see the old place from time to time. It has changed a lot but my memories of the long hot summers of the 50's and 60's will never leave me.
Smile

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Manor Park

Post  Irene on Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:59 pm

Thanks for the tip about this site on Newham History site. I too spent the first eleven year of my life in Colchester Avenue. and attended Fourth Avenue School, which I now understand is no more. When I married I went to live in Colchester, Essex and now upon retirement my husband and I live in Spain but I still have very fond memories of Manor Park, like fishing down the butts and walking along by the railway to play on Wanstead Flats, plus many more to numerous to mention.

Irene

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Manor Parks Biddle family.

Post  billdor on Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:47 am

Hello Tony and Irene. I also post on the Newham local history board. Did you know of the Biddle family who lived in Washington Avenue?

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Shops in High Street North

Post  Judy Williams on Mon Apr 28, 2008 12:57 pm

I also came to this board via the Newham site. I'm really glad to find the site as Manor Park doesn't often get a mention. I was born in Forest Gate hospital in 1955 and lived in Manor Park in Shelley Avenue then Kensington Avenue - my Mum still lives there so I often visit. I'd love to read other people's memories of the area - what shops can anyone remember in High Street North between Manor Park Broadway and East Ham Station? I'm trying to compile a list around the 1960-65 period if anyone can help. I remember Jovis the shoe shop, and Fenn's the Electrician (my Dad used to mend typewriters for him). Nearby was also a men's clothing shop (?Leon's), Blanchard's the diy shop, Catto's the Chemist, Morgan's the newsagents, Threadwells, the florists, and Dukes the fish and chip shop. Can anyone add any more for me? Looking forward to hearing from you,
Judy

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:02 pm

Judy Williams wrote:I also came to this board via the Newham site. I'm really glad to find the site as Manor Park doesn't often get a mention. I was born in Forest Gate hospital in 1955 and lived in Manor Park in Shelley Avenue then Kensington Avenue - my Mum still lives there so I often visit. I'd love to read other people's memories of the area - what shops can anyone remember in High Street North between Manor Park Broadway and East Ham Station? I'm trying to compile a list around the 1960-65 period if anyone can help. I remember Jovis the shoe shop, and Fenn's the Electrician (my Dad used to mend typewriters for him). Nearby was also a men's clothing shop (?Leon's), Blanchard's the diy shop, Catto's the Chemist, Morgan's the newsagents, Threadwells, the florists, and Dukes the fish and chip shop. Can anyone add any more for me? Looking forward to hearing from you,
Judy

I used to go to the music shop in High Street North called J60 around 1964 to see Steve Marriot, who of course formed the Small Faces.
He lived in Strone Road at the time and I knew him from Sandringham school. I never dreamed then that he'd become the star he did.
Sadly he died in a house fire in 1991 aged only 43.
I remember that great fish and chip shop opposite Church Road at the Manor Park end....it had an Italian name that escapes me at the moment.
I also remember the Boot club on the corner of Strone Road...was it called Capon's?....You could get shoes on credit!... Very Happy
Opposite was the post office on the corner of Coleridge Avenue, a butchers next to it, then a record shop....Webbs the newsagents, a chemists on the corner....The Ruskin pub has been there yonks of course......more later.

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:03 pm

billdor wrote:Hello Tony and Irene. I also post on the Newham local history board. Did you know of the Biddle family who lived in Washington Avenue?

That was only a short road wasn't it?.....the name rings a bell but my brain isn't what it was.
Rolling Eyes
Mind you, I remember the junk shop called 'Simple Simons' on the Romford Road by Washington Avenue!


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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:06 pm

Irene wrote:Thanks for the tip about this site on Newham History site. I too spent the first eleven year of my life in Colchester Avenue. and attended Fourth Avenue School, which I now understand is no more. When I married I went to live in Colchester, Essex and now upon retirement my husband and I live in Spain but I still have very fond memories of Manor Park, like fishing down the butts and walking along by the railway to play on Wanstead Flats, plus many more to numerous to mention.

Irene

Ah, The Butts...now you're talking. I used to take a fishing net there to catch sticklebacks and take them home in a jam jar.
Remember the great big steam locos thundering by?
Used to climb the railings into the cemetery to get conkers.
Remember the cows that used to graze on the flats?
What about the prefabs that stood over near the Golden Fleece until about 1963?
Happy days.

Smile

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shops in High St North

Post  Judy Williams on Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:07 am

Thanks for the memories of the shops Tony - I'd forgotten some of them. I never knew that the record shop was owned by Steve Marriott. I think that shop became the Elvis memorabilia shop later on. I do remember the fish and chip chop - 'Colafrancescos'. The Dad (owner) who was always in the shop, died some years back and his wife, daughter and son- in-law carried on the business for many years, until they sold it a few years ago. They still make good fish and chips though, we go there when we visit Mum.

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:47 am

Judy Williams wrote:Thanks for the memories of the shops Tony - I'd forgotten some of them. I never knew that the record shop was owned by Steve Marriott. I think that shop became the Elvis memorabilia shop later on. I do remember the fish and chip chop - 'Colafrancescos'. The Dad (owner) who was always in the shop, died some years back and his wife, daughter and son- in-law carried on the business for many years, until they sold it a few years ago. They still make good fish and chips though, we go there when we visit Mum.

J60's wasn't a record shop Judy, it was a musical instrument shop full of guitars and drums!......Steve didn't own it, he just worked in there...he was only 16 at the time. It was on the other side of the road to the shop you're thinking of....going towards the chippy we're talking of.
Thank God you remembered the chip shop name...I was going mad trying to think of it...I remember the bloke that ran it now...little dark haired Italian who was always smiling. Sad to hear he's died. Mind you, he must have been getting on.
The record shop is at number 400 High Street North....My father grew up in the huge flat above it......I actually lived in it for the first month of my life. It was this shop that became the Elvis shop.

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What a lovely place Manor Park used to be

Post  Mick Coe on Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:49 am

I have never lived in Manor Park, but my mother lived there until she married and her mother lived there until the early 1960's. Their home was at 107 Second Avenue and I used to visit my Nan as a child and later by myself.
What prompted me to sign up to this site was the reference to Second Avenue by a boy/man 3 years younger than myself. When I was a young teenager I was persuaded to give up my toy soldiers, Dinky toys etc to the son of a family, in Second Avenue, that my Nan had befriended. The boy in question would probably have been about three years younger than me. Wouldn't that be a coincidence if that boy was you!
I cannot wait to hear if this tale strikes a chord.
Best wishes
Mick

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Judy Williams on Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:40 am

Thanks for sorting me out about the music shop Tony. Do let me know if you think of any more shops in High St N. I've also remembered the woodshop on the corner of Rosebery Avenue - don't know if it had a name, Dad always referred to it as just 'the wood shop' and he seemed to spend hours there on Saturdays before coming home with another lump of wood to cobble together something from the latest DIY magazine! I also thought of Sharps the photographic shop where we got our pictures developed. I think it took about a week in those days. They would have been amazed to see the 1 hour machines now :-)
Judy

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Thu May 01, 2008 10:27 am

Mick Coe wrote:I have never lived in Manor Park, but my mother lived there until she married and her mother lived there until the early 1960's. Their home was at 107 Second Avenue and I used to visit my Nan as a child and later by myself.
What prompted me to sign up to this site was the reference to Second Avenue by a boy/man 3 years younger than myself. When I was a young teenager I was persuaded to give up my toy soldiers, Dinky toys etc to the son of a family, in Second Avenue, that my Nan had befriended. The boy in question would probably have been about three years younger than me. Wouldn't that be a coincidence if that boy was you!
I cannot wait to hear if this tale strikes a chord.
Best wishes
Mick
Good grief Mick...you have got me wondering here. I lived at 108 Second Avenue!......107 was directly in front of me!
......I remember the people that lived there...... more incredible is that I played football for 3 teams from 1965 to 1969 and one of the players was a Mick Coe!......as for the toys....it actually rings a bell with me even though it would have been almost 50 years ago.
If it wasn't me you can guarantee I'd remember the names of any other boys it might have been. Any clues?
By the way...........are/were you blonde?

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What a lovely area E12 used to be

Post  Mick Coe on Thu May 01, 2008 3:02 pm

Hi Tony

No it wasn' t you! The lad in question lived on the odd number side about half way between 107 and the Romford Road. I think the Kosher butcher was still on that corner in those days.

If you were opposite Nan then you would have been near the house of old Mrs Rose and her son. He was a keen stamp collector and Nan persuaded him to let me have some stamps each time I visited. She could be quite persuasive my Nan! Her name was Alice Carpenter, generally known as Lally. When her second husband, Jack, died, the landlord offered to sell her the house but she had no money. She was persuaded to give up the first floor and a couple called Joan and Norman Wales purchased the house and occupied the first floor. When Nan moved out to live with us, Joan and Norman took over the whole house. You may remember that they had a bubble car. Norman died and Joan was still at the house until about a year ago.

At 109 was a family whose members I am a bit confused about. When I was little there was a very old man there, who I used to think looked like a pirate. He had been a sailor and his name was Bill Hussey. His daughter, Flo, was married to a man whose surname was Holland. The fourth member of the household was Katie, an unmarried lady who I think was Flo's sister. I think she may have had "learning difficulties" and she possibly worked at Clarnico's? My earliest memory of them is sitting in their back parlour with gas lighting only.

I hope that as a non-resident I am allowed to continue on this site as I have lots questions to ask and bits of memories to share if you want them.

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Thu May 01, 2008 5:28 pm

Mick Coe wrote:Hi Tony

No it wasn' t you! The lad in question lived on the odd number side about half way between 107 and the Romford Road. I think the Kosher butcher was still on that corner in those days.

If you were opposite Nan then you would have been near the house of old Mrs Rose and her son. He was a keen stamp collector and Nan persuaded him to let me have some stamps each time I visited. She could be quite persuasive my Nan! Her name was Alice Carpenter, generally known as Lally. When her second husband, Jack, died, the landlord offered to sell her the house but she had no money. She was persuaded to give up the first floor and a couple called Joan and Norman Wales purchased the house and occupied the first floor. When Nan moved out to live with us, Joan and Norman took over the whole house. You may remember that they had a bubble car. Norman died and Joan was still at the house until about a year ago.

At 109 was a family whose members I am a bit confused about. When I was little there was a very old man there, who I used to think looked like a pirate. He had been a sailor and his name was Bill Hussey. His daughter, Flo, was married to a man whose surname was Holland. The fourth member of the household was Katie, an unmarried lady who I think was Flo's sister. I think she may have had "learning difficulties" and she possibly worked at Clarnico's? My earliest memory of them is sitting in their back parlour with gas lighting only.

I hope that as a non-resident I am allowed to continue on this site as I have lots questions to ask and bits of memories to share if you want them.

Mick......as soon as I read the name 'Lally' I remembered her!....I phoned my 78 year old mother tonight and she remembered her very well too. They used to stop and talk all the time she said. My Mum also remembered Jack although I can't......as for Joan and Norman, I remember them very well. When his bubble car appeared parked almost dead opposite us in the early 60's I was fascinated by it and he often came out when I was looking at it but he never offered me a ride in it which was what I wanted. Crying or Very sad
Amazing to think that Joan was still there a year ago...she would have to be over 80 now I'd say.
My Mum also knew Bill Hussey....she said my late father used to get on well with him and she also agreed he looked like a pirate!...I'm afraid my memory won't throw him up for me though.....Likewise, my old Mum remembered Katie. She was really enjoying hearing these old names and putting faces to them tonight.
I am amazed at your recollection of so any names and details Mick.
Did you ever mix with any of the Second Avenue kids?.....do any of these names ring a bell with you?......The twins, Steve and Ian Caruth....Trevor and Mick Burns?.....Leslie Day?....John Bright, Norman Weedon?....They all lived within 50 yards of 107 Second Avenue. What about John Williams, Keith Mason?....Our family surname is Quinlan....know of us?
By the way, talking of the Halal butchers....remember the shoe repairers at the Church Road end?...Fred Reynolds. Believe it or not he was still there up until 1995 by which time he was 80!!

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Judy Williams on Fri May 02, 2008 7:24 am

"By the way, talking of the Halal butchers....remember the shoe repairers at the Church Road end?...Fred Reynolds. Believe it or not he was still there up until 1995 by which time he was 80!!"

I knew Mr and Mrs Reynolds very well. I used to go to Manor Park Baptist Church, and Mr Reynolds took the "Junior Church" on Sunday mornings. (An excuse for all the children to miss the sermon!). They lived in Meanley Road just along from the Cobblers. I can remember Mum making me trek from Kensington Avenue on some Saturday mornings to take the family's shoes in for "toes and heels please". It seemed like miles and miles (I was only about 10 or 11 at the time) but it was more interesting than going to the Launderette like I had to do on the other Saturdays. Children these days would think it slave labour I think, but we thought nothing of it. You just did what you were told didn't you? Mr Reynolds never updated his shop did he. I always wishes I'd had the thought to take a picture before he eventually retired. I think one of these old 'museums of modern living' would have loved to have had all the fixtures and fittings, but I guess they ended up in a skip. I have a feeling that Mr Reynolds is still alive - he was certainly at a friend's funeral 3 or 4 years ago. I'll ask my Mum next time I speak to her.

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What a lovely place E12 used to be

Post  Mick Coe on Fri May 02, 2008 2:17 pm

Hi Tony

Very little time this evening but will come back again shortly.

Apart from when I was a baby we only visited for a day, never overnight, so I never knew the kids.

The butcher was Kosher, not Halal. Was the name Morris?

When did your Mum move into 108? I have a family connection with 107 going back to 1911. If your Mum had memories of my family from before the war, that would be really interesting/useful for my family history research.

Best wishes - will be back in next few days.

Mick

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Fri May 02, 2008 6:12 pm

Mick Coe wrote:Hi Tony

Very little time this evening but will come back again shortly.

Apart from when I was a baby we only visited for a day, never overnight, so I never knew the kids.

The butcher was Kosher, not Halal. Was the name Morris?

When did your Mum move into 108? I have a family connection with 107 going back to 1911. If your Mum had memories of my family from before the war, that would be really interesting/useful for my family history research.

Best wishes - will be back in next few days.

Mick

Oh dear...I did say Halal instead of Kosher...that was because it became a Halal in the late 70's/early 80's...My brain is going Sad ....I do remember it well from the 50's and 60's though, I can see the chap that ran it in my mind's eye quite clearly but I can't get the name of it out from the back of my mind.
I recall that two doors from him was a weird junk shop called 'Levys' where a scruffy old man sat amongst what seemed to me, a bundle of rags!...God knows what that was all about!
On the other corner of Second Avenue was a haberdashery shop of sorts and next to that the interesting 'Ben Salmon Radio shop. The facade was still the original Victorian one right up until the mid 80's when it finally closed after a long time in business. Next to him was Kimberleys, the toy and bike shop.
My Mum had me in 1949 when she was just 19 herself and we didn't move to Second Avenue until the end of that year.
Look forward to hearing from you again.


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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Fri May 02, 2008 6:21 pm

Judy Williams wrote:"By the way, talking of the Halal butchers....remember the shoe repairers at the Church Road end?...Fred Reynolds. Believe it or not he was still there up until 1995 by which time he was 80!!"

I knew Mr and Mrs Reynolds very well. I used to go to Manor Park Baptist Church, and Mr Reynolds took the "Junior Church" on Sunday mornings. (An excuse for all the children to miss the sermon!). They lived in Meanley Road just along from the Cobblers. I can remember Mum making me trek from Kensington Avenue on some Saturday mornings to take the family's shoes in for "toes and heels please". It seemed like miles and miles (I was only about 10 or 11 at the time) but it was more interesting than going to the Launderette like I had to do on the other Saturdays. Children these days would think it slave labour I think, but we thought nothing of it. You just did what you were told didn't you? Mr Reynolds never updated his shop did he. I always wishes I'd had the thought to take a picture before he eventually retired. I think one of these old 'museums of modern living' would have loved to have had all the fixtures and fittings, but I guess they ended up in a skip. I have a feeling that Mr Reynolds is still alive - he was certainly at a friend's funeral 3 or 4 years ago. I'll ask my Mum next time I speak to her.
Judy...I remember the Baptist Church well, although I didn't attend it ever. Thanks for jogging my memory about them living in Meanley Road.
Do you remember the little grocer's shop in Church Road that stood almost on the corner of Herbert Road (a road that no longer exisits)...what was that called?...Was the man's name Horace?
I also wish I'd taken some pics of that old Reynolds shop...it was like being in a time machine. I can still see the Cherry Blossom polish ad with the two kittens in a pair of boots in the front window!....Talking of Kensington Avenue...I used to go to the youth club there...I played for the football team....great days.

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Irene on Sun May 04, 2008 10:20 am

Tony wrote:
Irene wrote:Thanks for the tip about this site on Newham History site. I too spent the first eleven year of my life in Colchester Avenue. and attended Fourth Avenue School, which I now understand is no more. When I married I went to live in Colchester, Essex and now upon retirement my husband and I live in Spain but I still have very fond memories of Manor Park, like fishing down the butts and walking along by the railway to play on Wanstead Flats, plus many more to numerous to mention.

Irene

Ah, The Butts...now you're talking. I used to take a fishing net there to catch sticklebacks and take them home in a jam jar.
Remember the great big steam locos thundering by?
Used to climb the railings into the cemetery to get conkers.
Remember the cows that used to graze on the flats?
What about the prefabs that stood over near the Golden Fleece until about 1963?
Happy days.

Smile


Hi Tony and everone else browsing this site,

My brothers spent many a happy hour down the butts, where they would (unbeknown to the parents) try crossing the dam, ( wow, there could have been great trouble).

When going to the butts or to play on the flats we had to go under the bridge, I would make sure there was not any trains coming as I hated to be under the bridge when they went overhead. I still to this day hate to be under a bridge when a train goes over.

Yes, I remember clearly the cows on the flats, what big things they were, didn't like them then and still don't.

I don't remember the prefabs on the flats and was the Golden fleece the pub on the edge of the flats in Forest Road? If so I can remeber many sunny Sunday afternoon/evening being taken by the parents to play cricket on the flats (Dad made the bat), while mym and dad had a drink in the pub.

Also liked to watch the horse at the dairy at the bottom of Colchester Avenue (United Dairies I think), and the one theat came from Whitbread Brewery.

Tucked in the corner of Colchester Avenue was J F Knott, is it still there and can anyone remember what they manufactured.

All for now, hope you all have a good Bank Holiday

Irene

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Judy Williams on Mon May 05, 2008 3:23 am

Tony wrote:
Judy Williams wrote:"By the way, talking of the Halal butchers....remember the shoe repairers at the Church Road end?...Fred Reynolds. Believe it or not he was still there up until 1995 by which time he was 80!!"

I knew Mr and Mrs Reynolds very well. I used to go to Manor Park Baptist Church, and Mr Reynolds took the "Junior Church" on Sunday mornings. (An excuse for all the children to miss the sermon!). They lived in Meanley Road just along from the Cobblers. I can remember Mum making me trek from Kensington Avenue on some Saturday mornings to take the family's shoes in for "toes and heels please". It seemed like miles and miles (I was only about 10 or 11 at the time) but it was more interesting than going to the Launderette like I had to do on the other Saturdays. Children these days would think it slave labour I think, but we thought nothing of it. You just did what you were told didn't you? Mr Reynolds never updated his shop did he. I always wishes I'd had the thought to take a picture before he eventually retired. I think one of these old 'museums of modern living' would have loved to have had all the fixtures and fittings, but I guess they ended up in a skip. I have a feeling that Mr Reynolds is still alive - he was certainly at a friend's funeral 3 or 4 years ago. I'll ask my Mum next time I speak to her.
Judy...I remember the Baptist Church well, although I didn't attend it ever. Thanks for jogging my memory about them living in Meanley Road.
Do you remember the little grocer's shop in Church Road that stood almost on the corner of Herbert Road (a road that no longer exisits)...what was that called?...Was the man's name Horace?
I also wish I'd taken some pics of that old Reynolds shop...it was like being in a time machine. I can still see the Cherry Blossom polish ad with the two kittens in a pair of boots in the front window!....Talking of Kensington Avenue...I used to go to the youth club there...I played for the football team....great days.

Sorry Tony, I can't remember the grocer's shop, but I too can still see the Cherry Blossom Kittens! I spoke to Mum this morning and she thinks that Mr Reynolds died just a couple of years ago, Mrs Reynolds died quite a while ago. I never got to Kensington Youth Club as I was quite involved with the church youth clubs at that time - it's some sort of Social Services building now, but it still has that weird sculpture hanging off the front wall to remind me of the old days! Judy

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What a lovely area E12 used to be

Post  Mick Coe on Tue May 06, 2008 8:52 am

Hi Tony

I found an old photo of my Nan from the time when you would have known her. I have scanned it to make a jpeg image but being technically incompetent I don't know how to get it onto the site!

Any very easy to follow instructions would be welcome.

Best wishes

Mick

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Wed May 07, 2008 12:19 pm

Mick Coe wrote:Hi Tony

I found an old photo of my Nan from the time when you would have known her. I have scanned it to make a jpeg image but being technically incompetent I don't know how to get it onto the site!

Any very easy to follow instructions would be welcome.

Best wishes

Mick

Email me it Mick and I'll put it on straight away......it will be easier than explaining.
I look forward to seeing this!

I'm at footballpunter@gmail.com

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Thu May 08, 2008 4:53 pm

Thanks for the pics that I include here Mick....along with your attached email:

Hello Tony,

I would guess that this picture of Mum, myself and my Nan was taken
about 1956.

I have also added a picture of 107 Second Avenue that I took in
2004. Apart from the enclosed porch and the replacement windows it
hadn't changed much. I called on the off chance and Joan remembered
me and let me in. The downstairs had been modernised out of
recognition. The incredible thing about that brief visit was that
when Nan had moved out she had left behind/ abandoned a family
bible. Joan had not felt able to bin it, and after nearly 40 years
passed it on to me!





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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Thu May 08, 2008 5:02 pm

As soon as I saw that picture I recognised your Nan Mick!....I haven't seen her face in over 40 years!....Really took me back that picture.
I have emailed it to my Mum....I'll let you know what she says.
I can't say I remember you or your Mum though.
I too have been back to take pics in Second Avenue....My old house at 108 opposite your Nan's is also no different apart from a porch and double glazing. They were sturdy old Victorian houses built to last hundreds of years!....I expect there was a cellar at 107...all the houses in the street had them...My brother and I used ours as our own little retreat from the world.
Once again, thanks for the pics....I'll sort out a couple of mine and get them up soon.
Smile

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Re: What a lovely area E.12 used to be...

Post  Tony on Thu May 08, 2008 5:48 pm

Here are an interesting pair of pictures taken at the very top of Second Avenue in Romford Road looking towards Ilford in 1962.





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